Shark Brainstorming II

[Shark]

I'd like to determine a hierarchy of what sort of variance we want and need for the different parts. I think our modus opperandi should be to start with as simple a base as possible:

Physical: Strength/Agility

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Strength: Damage (strength based attacks), damage reduction,



Agility: Damage (agility based attacks), dodge defense.



Mental: IQ/Perception



IQ: Damage (IQ based attacks), mental defense.



Perception: Damage (perception based attacks - ranged attacks), Perception defense (ranged attacks).



Adrenal: Ability to push yourself further in order to succeed at an action.



Hit points? Basic/average number, physical bonus' and penalties based on character traits (things you buy) rather than ability stats.



What is in an action:



Stat + Skill + Adrenaline (optional) vs. the action's Complexity Class (CC?).



Opposed: any action against a non-static object can be opposed. An opposed action works as follows: The aggressor (person taking the action) rolls his success chance, adds any modifiers and adrenaline and counts his successes. The defender then rolls, adds any modifiers, and adrenaline, if able (must be readied?) and counts the successes, 1 defender success negates on aggressor success. In order to defend against a success, you must increase the defense roll one higher than the attacker's roll, or in simpler terms, all ties go to the aggressor.



Success = 1 (or more) unopposed successes.



Additional Success: additional options per additional success.



Complexity Class: The base action (attack, move, free, etc) + any additional base action type, for compound actions + any specific action modifiers (quickly, slowly, normally, etc), + any situational modifiers such as distance and cover.



Timeline: The base action(s) + the specific action modifiers + the way you are doing it (quickly, slowly, quietly, etc).



Action Types: Immediate actions and Set-Up actions (no immediate effect, but modifies a future action, depending on specific circumstances).



Critical Success? A success so high it is an auto hit, cannot be defended?



Critical failure? A failure so low it cannot be increased to hit?



Adrenaline: Can be spent to improve any non-critical failure(?) roll.



Situational modifiers: Generally adds an effect to the action, rather than adding a specific number.

Rolling idea: Abilities determine the dice, skills add modifiers to the action, reduces the number of dice, etc. As, how many dice do we need, and should we not try and streamline as much as we can?

[alex]

Lots of this we've discussed before, I'll just comment on a few things:

Hit points? Basic/average number, physical bonus' and penalties based on character traits (things you buy) rather than ability stats.

I don't mind if we don't have a CON/toughness stat. We can put the variance of HP into merits/flaws and other skills.

Success = 1 (or more) unopposed successes

Assuming we have a pool of ~6, you have a very high probability of getting 1 success, even if the DC is near the top of the range. With 6 dice, 0-1 successess should be a failure, 2-3 be a "hit" and 4-5 be a "crit"

[Shark]

[Lots of this we've discussed before, I'll just comment on a few things:]

That's true, but as we stated, we should get it all written down and forumed up.

I think you might have mis-read this part: Hit points? Basic/average number, physical bonus' and penalties based on character traits (things you buy) rather than ability stats.

I'm not talking just about hit points, I don't think we have discussed anything like this before, maybe though! But what I am saying, is why don't we get rid entirely of the whole ability stat aspect, and instead build characters based entirely on character traits.

Moreover, I'm saying I think with this forum we should start fresh, with no pre-conceived notions of what we want, as I feel that is severely limiting the discussion and infringing on the creative process. We can quickly eliminate things, but might as well get any ideas we have out before settling on anything.

[alex]

I'm not talking just about hit points, I don't think we have discussed anything like this before, maybe though! But what I am saying, is why don't we get rid entirely of the whole ability stat aspect, and instead build characters based entirely on character traits.

I know you are still broadly searching for concepts and not sold on anything, and perhaps you've got more in the brain waiting to be dumped. But if you have a good idea on how to start a system with just words, lets have it. Saying things like "what if we got rid of stats and just used words" is only the beggining of an idea. There is no system there. I can't see how it would work. I can't comment on whether or not I like it beyond impressions and guesses. For now I'm going to assume you are talking about a list of descriptive words that define your character.

As i mentioned in the other post, the best example of a trait oriented system that I've played is mind's eye theaters LARP rules. Obviously they were designed with simplicity and RP in mind, since there's no table, no dice and it's LARP. But even in that system, which had any decent "game" element stripped away, you still counted. I know, counting is terrible. It's like math. But I can't think of a way to get along with just words.

Would we not categorize the traits? Or count them? Because that's really the only difference. How strong are you? Well, I've got beefy, strong and muscle-bound. Am I stronger than a person with brawny and mighty? But mighty is SO much danker than beefy. Well ok, you have 3 strength oriented traits, you have 3 strength. Oh, shit, stats are back!

How would traits impact dice rolling?
-Having a list of traits that each modify certain rolls seems cumbersome.

How would you use multiple traits in the same action?
-Seems to get extra complicated if you try to use more than one. And if you can only use one at a time, you aren't getting "better" with more traits, just getting more options (which is good, but not enough).

How many traits does an average character have?
-Again this seems like a hard number to manage. Without supporting numbers (which contain as much, if not more useful game information), an ever-increasing list of traits seems like a strange way to define people. If all people get are traits when they get XP, it will be hard to make starting characters interesting without having too many by the end. Numbers give granularity and meaning to small increases.

We've got to get settled on some basic stuff. Maybe not now, not this weekend, but soon. We've got to make some decisions and move forward. We can always go back and change things, but I feel like we're unwilling to accept good ideas because "there might be something out there that is danker that we haven't thought of yet"

I'm willing to explore other options, but they need to be more concrete.

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